You don't say which dialogue is the source of your information about Plato's concepts; I was reading yesterday in another place about the Meno, and struck forcefully by how absolutely essential this dialogue is to our current need to block an effort to create tyranny by learning what virtue is and how to acquire it. I urge you to study it -- I am doing so. Here is an overview -- look especially at the section "Summary of Arguments: https://iep.utm.edu/meno-2/#:~:text=The%20Meno%20is%20a%20philosophical,between%20oligarchic%20and%20democratic%20factions.
It seems that virtue is a kind of practice of seeking knowledge about what creates well-being -- all parts are essential -- the knowledge, which is innate, the practice that enables us to seek it, the mental faculty which is our guide in the search -- and the eidos that is the goal...
I was wondering what you meant by this, but Google clarified: you mean "eudaimonia". Yes. "Socrates believed that true happiness, or eudaimonia, is not found in external things like wealth or pleasure, but in living a virtuous and meaningful life, guided by wisdom and knowledge. He argued that virtue is the key to happiness, and that a life lived virtuously, characterized by wisdom and moral excellence, is inherently fulfilling and leads to eudaimonia."
"For Plato, the idea of a thing is its invisible essence."
I am not well versed in philosophy, but are Plato's ideas/forms the same as Kant's "things-in-themselves"? Kant thought that we can observe the world, but when we see something, it's not the actual thing we see. Rather, carrots and virtues and people are always colored by our experiences, by our minds.
Thanks for your observations! I would say anamnesis is deeper because it involves recognizing in the outer world what you see in yourself. Basically, you look at a thing, which is a shadow of its idea, and you recognize the Idea both within and without. Inside and outside. When I recognize the idea both in me and in outside things, I am never deceived by the appearances anymore.
I love that statement that "a shadow is only good when it points beyond itself." There's just so much in that simple statement. We are only shadows, reflections of God. We are called to point the way to God. So much of the time we forget that we are just shadows and think we are the main thing, the solid reality, and that reminds me of Plato's cave and all that implies. It feels like remembering - it feels like a door opens in your mind - when you learn something, but I must admit I'm still struggling to understand completely this anamnesis from Plato. Thanks for your enlightening words!
...human consciousness is symbolic by nature✔️
"It strives to remember what it saw in heaven," calls to my mind the poem "Beasts," the final two stanzas:
Meantime, at high windows
Far from thicket and pad-fall, suitors of excellence
Sigh and turn from their work to construe again the painful
Beauty of heaven, the lucid moon
And the risen hunter,
Making such dreams for men
As told will break their hearts as always, bringing
Monsters into the city, crows on the public statues,
Navies fed to the fish in the dark
Unbridled waters.
– RICHARD WILBUR
This poem, and your post today, Eugene, remind me of this "painful beauty of heaven"
You don't say which dialogue is the source of your information about Plato's concepts; I was reading yesterday in another place about the Meno, and struck forcefully by how absolutely essential this dialogue is to our current need to block an effort to create tyranny by learning what virtue is and how to acquire it. I urge you to study it -- I am doing so. Here is an overview -- look especially at the section "Summary of Arguments: https://iep.utm.edu/meno-2/#:~:text=The%20Meno%20is%20a%20philosophical,between%20oligarchic%20and%20democratic%20factions.
Thanks, Phillip. Yes, it's an important one! Thank you for the recommendation.
It seems that virtue is a kind of practice of seeking knowledge about what creates well-being -- all parts are essential -- the knowledge, which is innate, the practice that enables us to seek it, the mental faculty which is our guide in the search -- and the eidos that is the goal...
The main purpose of the ancient school was to master art of being happy.
I was wondering what you meant by this, but Google clarified: you mean "eudaimonia". Yes. "Socrates believed that true happiness, or eudaimonia, is not found in external things like wealth or pleasure, but in living a virtuous and meaningful life, guided by wisdom and knowledge. He argued that virtue is the key to happiness, and that a life lived virtuously, characterized by wisdom and moral excellence, is inherently fulfilling and leads to eudaimonia."
Yes, eudaimonia, the pursuit of the good life, a study of happiness as inner harmony.
The Capacity to Comprehend this came when I studied the History and the Making of Wayang Kulit, "the Shadow Puppets" of Java & Bali in the mid-80's.
"For Plato, the idea of a thing is its invisible essence."
I am not well versed in philosophy, but are Plato's ideas/forms the same as Kant's "things-in-themselves"? Kant thought that we can observe the world, but when we see something, it's not the actual thing we see. Rather, carrots and virtues and people are always colored by our experiences, by our minds.
Thanks for your observations! I would say anamnesis is deeper because it involves recognizing in the outer world what you see in yourself. Basically, you look at a thing, which is a shadow of its idea, and you recognize the Idea both within and without. Inside and outside. When I recognize the idea both in me and in outside things, I am never deceived by the appearances anymore.
And that is how we can gain meaning from experiences and objects.
🌳 To perceive the logoi of things,
Being, well-being and Eternal Being.
Saint Maximus the Confessor 🤔✍🏼🌐✨
Thanks!
Thank you, Regina. Great poem! Construe again the painful beauty of heaven.
I love that statement that "a shadow is only good when it points beyond itself." There's just so much in that simple statement. We are only shadows, reflections of God. We are called to point the way to God. So much of the time we forget that we are just shadows and think we are the main thing, the solid reality, and that reminds me of Plato's cave and all that implies. It feels like remembering - it feels like a door opens in your mind - when you learn something, but I must admit I'm still struggling to understand completely this anamnesis from Plato. Thanks for your enlightening words!
Image and likeness, Icons ☦️⛪🔔❤️
The shadow can become an idol when we venerate (worship) the shadow too highly. When it glorifies God, it becomes an icon.